Curse

ccfrecc · Mar 06, 2010, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

We don't need days on end of people farming and recording their data... We need an official word from the developers. They KNOW what the drop rate is because they programmed the algorithms. Why not publish the information?

I'm 100% positive that the loot-scaling has a lot to do with it. I can farm a particular area solo and get 0-2 gold drops. I take a friend (who does nothing but stand at the shrine) and between the both of us we get 3-6 gold drops every time.

I partially agree with what is said here, mostly the first part... There is nothing secretive about C++ code, and especially the fact that I can code it myself, so the least ANET could do is share WTH their doing and why... I understand that the whole nerf was partly due to botters and the like, but Guild War's Economy is going to crap. I mean, have you seen the price of Ecto lately!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadey

pssh..u dont need data..Heck theres not 1 person thats played GW for a number of years that wont tell u the drops are worse than eva.

Loot scaling was retarded..The idea was to make it so the more people in a grp the better the drops?..lol..seriously thats the biggest load of crap anet ever said.
I can do full grps in HM and do 5 missions and not get a single gold,and thats meant to be an incentive to not farm?

100% agreed, The least ANET could do i "Come Out Of the Closet" so-to-speak and be honest about the whole ordeal and not try to cover up the problem with more problems (A.K.A: A Really Pissed Of Community!

)!

Deakon · Mar 06, 2010, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

ANet wants players to play the game, not the system/data.

In other words, they realize that if the players knew exactly what their chances were for certain drops, they'd stop playing? You're probably right. But the chances of getting a Celestial Tiger mini pet were posted so you'd be incorrect in your statement.

R_Frost · Mar 06, 2010, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

ANet wants players to play the game, not the system/data.

what few players are left.

but seriously, the game is coming up on 5 years old. unless some serious content update is coming soon, the game is played out. only thing left to do is title farm or farm for some drop that may be wanted. nothing anyone does in PvE affects anyone else being an instanced world. the best thing Anet could do is un-do a ton of nerfs this game got once GW2 gets near. it would bring back a bunch of long time players and maybe give everyone some fun before GW2 hits the stores.

Shayne Hawke · Mar 06, 2010, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

But the chances of getting a Celestial Tiger mini pet were posted so you'd be incorrect in your statement.

Posted and confirmed by a Dev, or concluded through testing and documented on the wiki? Either way, the Canthan Tiger minipet is not an item obtained through monster loot, so it's not really the same. But, you can step back and look at how to farm Lunar Tokens for buying Lunar Fortunes, and then you're back at wondering what the drop rate for Lunar Tokens would be, whether one farm is faster than another or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R_Frost

what few players are left.

but seriously, the game is coming up on 5 years old. unless some serious content update is coming soon, the game is played out. only thing left to do is title farm or farm for some drop that may be wanted. nothing anyone does in PvE affects anyone else being an instanced world. the best thing Anet could do is un-do a ton of nerfs this game got once GW2 gets near. it would bring back a bunch of long time players and maybe give everyone some fun before GW2 hits the stores.

Players may have quit the game because ANet nerfed their favorite farming build, but I'm sure that there are other players that quit because ANet allowed some of those farming builds to exist in the first place. Perhaps some players quit because they were able to farm and accomplish so many things so fast that they became burned out from GW, or exhausted everything they wanted to do in the game sooner than they should have.

You want ANet to bring back a bunch of shitterway farming teams before GW2 comes out, and you say it will bring back the player base? Why would ANet want to drive more players to play GW once GW2 comes out, particularly the old players who have already spent what they wanted to spend on GW?

Plus, I can just hear the jeers of people in GW2 while I'm walking around with the rewards I pull out from the HoM, degraded in awe because of how easily obtainable they have been made.

Raven Wing · Mar 07, 2010, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Several ppl trying to derail. This is not about what farms that were nerfed or what skills are good or bad.
Out of 100 people posting in a thread 53 % have read the title and 47% post their own opinion regardless or just add pointless +1 post. Of the 53% the 30% still voice their opinion on something irrelevant and 20 state something that is obvious, pointless or contradicting facts. 3% got a solid relevant argument.
The bolded above is just a statement, only based on my own imagination.
Gerg-nad got the point.
We would need solid data to find out if and drop rates have been altered, and yes I know how to make a fischer test. Gimme a piece of paper and some weeks to do it by hand or a suitable sample of electronic datain the right format and the right software and a few minutes

We just dont have these data, all of the debate is founded on peoples experiance on a series of bad or good drops here or there.
The only research I have done myself based on proper statistics were chests run in Ice cliff chasms nm and Icedome HM. 800 and 1100 chests ran and counted only confirmed that the officially stated lockpick retention rate is correct.
Although we cannot really count on what anet announces since they prefer to keep silent my conclusion is that drop rates havent changed, I dont see solid facts supporting that statement.
The current struggle to get goods for nicky says nothing since we dont have any reliable data of someone killing a large number of these bull giant trainers earlier.

Deakon · Mar 07, 2010, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raven Wing

We would need solid data to find out if and drop rates have been altered, and yes I know how to make a fischer test. Gimme a piece of paper and some weeks to do it by hand or a suitable sample of electronic datain the right format and the right software and a few minutes

And this method is preferred over just asking someone who already knows the answer to the question? Anyone who codes knows there's no such thing as "random" in a controlled environment. You can make it appear random but there's still a formula and at least one person knows what it is. Drops aren't truly random. Loot scaling is proof of that. Why should it be a secret? Or something you have to spend a week or more on with a piece of paper and pencil? That's weak.

Shayne Hawke · Mar 07, 2010, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

And this method is preferred over just asking someone who already knows the answer to the question? Anyone who codes knows there's no such thing as "random" in a controlled environment. You can make it appear random but there's still a formula and at least one person knows what it is. Drops aren't truly random. Loot scaling is proof of that. Why should it be a secret? Or something you have to spend a week or more on with a piece of paper and pencil? That's weak.

Why do you need to know, and what incentive would ANet have to tell you in the first place?

Martin Alvito · Mar 07, 2010, 04:49 AM // 04:49

If you want to talk about the skill update, please do so in that thread.

Doesn't requesting that the devs provide you with detailed drop rate information strike you as a little...entitled? Players got that information for older games by reading the game's files. I suspect someone tried that at some point in the last five years, so it's safe to say that information isn't in GW.dat.

It follows that if you want drop rates, you're going to have to induct them from data.

El Perma Shadow · Mar 07, 2010, 06:46 AM // 06:46

One person says something is wrong and others notice that they face the same issues. Had no one made this thread, no one would of noticed. Kinda like the placebo effect.

Deakon · Mar 07, 2010, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Why do you need to know? {sic}

Did you read the title of the thread? You chimed in on a discussion that started with a question about changes in drop rates. Are you dimwitted or just trying to be an ass?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Doesn't requesting that the devs provide you with detailed drop rate information strike you as a little...entitled?

Damned skippy I'm entitled. Even soda pop companies tell you what your odds of winning prizes are when entering their little contests. And there's no purchase necessary. That mentality is the reason why Anet keeps giving us the "Sorry we RED GORED ENGINE up. Here's some free z-keys." Qu'ils mangent de la brioche!

I'm not asking for the source code. I'd just like to know what drop averages are without resorting to "observe and report" methods. It's not like we're trying to figure out some strange natural phenomenon.

And while we're asking each other stupid questions which have nothing to do with the topic... Why do you feel the need to champion Anet?

The-Bigz · Mar 07, 2010, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

And while we're asking each other stupid questions which have nothing to do with the topic... Why do you feel the need to champion Anet?

He deleted my cliff notes on someones epic flame attack at A-Net earlier as well, which was completely valid to the topic, and then he said some off topic shit after doing it. Why this guy is mod, who knows. Then again this site is more like a flaming/sarcasm/QQer's wet dream.

On Topic: Drop rates have been shit since before Shadow Form was invented in an effort to stop bots. If a bot can take 8 skills into an area and farm it succesfully for free shit for hours on end, theres something fudged up with your AI, not your drop rate.

Deakon · Mar 07, 2010, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Bigz

He deleted my cliff notes on someones epic flame attack at A-Net earlier as well, which was completely valid to the topic, and then he said some off topic shit after doing it. Why this guy is mod, who knows. Then again this site is more like a flaming/sarcasm/QQer's wet dream.

The first line of his post was "If you want to talk about the skill update, please do so in that thread." I went back and read every post in this thread and the only mentions of the update were as time references for noticing decreased drop rates. Maybe he just came from another thread or something. I'd like to give him the benefit of doubt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Bigz

On Topic: Drop rates have been shit since before Shadow Form was invented in an effort to stop bots. If a bot can take 8 skills into an area and farm it succesfully for free shit for hours on end, theres something fudged up with your AI, not your drop rate.

Agreed. I think a lot of people are just now noticing because they're having to work harder.

Martin Alvito · Mar 07, 2010, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Perma Shadow

One person says something is wrong and others notice that they face the same issues. Had no one made this thread, no one would of noticed. Kinda like the placebo effect.

The OP's motivation for making the thread is perfectly valid. But there's another explanation for the OP's observation: random chance. There's also another explanation for why several of you posted the same observation in this thread: selection bias. So while it's nice that several posters have observed the same thing, it doesn't prove the OP's thesis that drop rates have been nerfed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

And while we're asking each other stupid questions which have nothing to do with the topic... Why do you feel the need to champion Anet?

If you'd been around a few months ago, you'd know that I most definitely do not feel any need to champion ANet. What I'm saying is that your expectations are unrealistic. You're asking ANet to break with common industry practice on this subject, and as Shayne points out they are not incentivized to do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Bigz

He deleted my cliff notes on someones epic flame attack at A-Net earlier as well, which was completely valid to the topic, and then he said some off topic shit after doing it.

Flaming ANet about the SF nerf has nothing to do with a supposed shift in drop rates. The post you responded to was totally unrelated to the OP. If you want to complain about the success/failure of the nerf, do it in the update thread.

If you can't see why my post was related to the topic, I'll spell out the course of the discussion in this thread for you: Supposed drop rate nerf => questions about validity => request for drop rates from ANet. That's where we're at.

Shayne Hawke · Mar 07, 2010, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

Did you read the title of the thread? You chimed in on a discussion that started with a question about changes in drop rates. Are you dimwitted or just trying to be an ass?

Are you frustrated?

If you can't summon an explanation for why drop rates should be posted, other than that you're "entitled" to it, there is no significant reason for them to be posted, and it's not going to happen.

I'd also be interested in hearing how you would play differently if ANet told you either that the drop rates had been universally increased or decreased.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Bigz

Then again this site is more like a flaming/sarcasm/QQer's wet dream.

If you're going to post here with that mentality, you'll be contributing to the problem.

Deakon · Mar 07, 2010, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Are you frustrated?

Not at all. I think trolls are funny so I'm actually having a good time with you. Are you frustrated?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

If you can't summon an explanation for why drop rates should be posted, other than that you're "entitled" to it, there is no significant reason for them to be posted, and it's not going to happen.

Do you read the posts? Let me help you a little since you seem to be having problems... The OP asked if there's been a change to drop rates. Someone suggested spending hours on end with a pencil and paper to try and find out. I suggested that they ask Anet since they would obviously be the one's that would know. As far as summoning and explanation for why drop rates should be posted... For the same reason ANY information should be posted. Quite simply, because customers want to know. How difficult is that to understand?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

I'd also be interested in hearing how you would play differently if ANet told you either that the drop rates had been universally increased or decreased.

Allow me to paraphrase my favorite troll. "Why do you need to know, and what incentive would I have to tell you in the first place?" lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

The OP's motivation for making the thread is perfectly valid. But there's another explanation for the OP's observation: random chance. There's also another explanation for why several of you posted the same observation in this thread: selection bias. So while it's nice that several posters have observed the same thing, it doesn't prove the OP's thesis that drop rates have been nerfed.

It also doesn't prove that the drop rates HAVEN'T been nerfed. Once again... Only Anet knows.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

If you'd been around a few months ago, you'd know that I most definitely do not feel any need to champion ANet. What I'm saying is that your expectations are unrealistic. You're asking ANet to break with common industry practice on this subject, and as Shayne points out they are not incentivized to do that.

I've been around since the summer of 2007. And I still would like to know why you feel the need to champion Anet. I doubt I'll get an answer because I don't think you know. You and Shayne appear to both be CORRECT. Seems Anet doesn't have the incentive to do much of anything.

I'm just astounded at your and Shayne's response to a suggestion that we ask Anet a question. Is Anet some mystery cabal that is above reproach or questioning? It's not like I suggested that we hack the game. Why the knee-jerk defense reactions?

This thread is evidence enough that some of Anet's customers are interested in knowing if drop rates have changed and, if so, when they changed. I don't see that as unrealistic at all and don't understand why you do.

Let's say you buy ANY product (car, appliances etc.) and one day you notice that it's not performing like it used to. You'd take your concern to the manufacturer. If the manufacturer is too high and mighty to address your concern, then what? You go buy the new and improved model from them? Highly doubtful.

Please stop derailing threads. The original post was a question about drop rates and my suggestion is still a valid one. Ask the manufacturer. If they won't respond, then we can all act accordingly and govern ourselves with due notice. You can sit with a piece of paper and pencil recording your results for years on end... you may come up with something close to the answer but you'll still never know because, like was said, it still appears random even though there's definitely an algorithm at work.

ON TOPIC: Since some only want to pick out certain parts of my post to take issue with, I'll summarize my posts into one quick response and politely bow out of this troll-fest of a thread.

My observations lead me to believe that there has been no change in drop rates since the implementation of loot scaling but I can't state that as fact. You should probably ask someone who actually knows the answer because it's obvious no one here does.

ccfrecc · Mar 07, 2010, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deakon

And this method is preferred over just asking someone who already knows the answer to the question? Anyone who codes knows there's no such thing as "random" in a controlled environment. You can make it appear random but there's still a formula and at least one person knows what it is. Drops aren't truly random. Loot scaling is proof of that. Why should it be a secret? Or something you have to spend a week or more on with a piece of paper and pencil? That's weak.

Even though I agree with the fact that ANET should let us know the drop rates exact formula, I have accepted that it is never going to happen, as upon releasing this information, most of the players would proably leave just knowing their chances of getting anything valuable (This is already mentioned above, but I would like to clarify this again).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Why do you need to know, and what incentive would ANet have to tell you in the first place?

This makes my point exactly...
Now I think we can close this thread before it becomes (or maybe already is) a flamer thread... Yeah...

MithranArkanere · Mar 08, 2010, 03:38 PM // 15:38

I'm getting more gold drops in HM than usual in the last Vanquishings I've made.
Other that that I'm not felling any difference.